Women Preaching and Proclaiming

Lisa,

Unless my memory is faulty in the same comment I also wrote about truth in love.

(It's not there now - in the comment or in the post you copied from it, and I'm left wondering why not.)

There, unless my memory really is faulty, I also wrote about the way we view people - which can also be sinful - because I believe that what is in our hearts is very very important to God. It's from there that our actions honour God.

Perhaps you'd like to discuss that Lisa? For me those scriptures are also very important you see.

But I do want to apologise. The last bit you quoted above was actually me trying to be a little funny. I apologise that I offended you. I should not have joked in that way because it was disrespectful to your belief that women should not be in the pulpit, and I'm sorry I did.

I do ask that IF you decide to publish this (or any other) comment (either as a comment or as a separate item) please use it all. To do otherwise is to risk misrepresenting what I've said.

Be blessed :)

Lorna,
We can all have faulty memories. I know i can. But, besides this 3rd comment you made above, you made 2 seperate comments on 2 seperate posts on my site this morning. The one you are referring to in thinking I did not quote everything is a totally different comment on the post regarding justifying sin. It is not my heart to misrepresent what you said. I pray you understand now that it was not for lack of quoting you, but that it was that you posted comments on such things in seperate posts.
We can discuss those issues as well for we all have much to learn.

You did not offend me, Lorna. That is the difficulty with typing verses conversing. I just wanted to clarify the difference from a scripturally sound standpoint regarding the difference between preaching and proclaiming, my friend.

I pray we can continue to "converse" in a manner that brings honor to the Lord.

Sincerely from the heart,
Lisa

Preach in its original Greek is "Parakaleo" Its Definition is:
"to call to one's side, call for, summon to address, speak to, (call to, call upon), which may be done in the way of exhortation, entreaty, comfort, instruction, etc.
to admonish, exhort
to beg, entreat, beseech
to strive to appease by entreaty to console, to encourage and strengthen by consolation, to comfort
to receive consolation, be comforted to encourage, strengthen exhorting and comforting and encouraging
to instruct, teach

Translated Words
KJV (109) - beseech, 43; besought, 1; comfort, 23; desire, 8; exhort, 21; intreat, 3; misc, 4; pray, 6;
NAS (110) - appeal, 4; appealed, 1; appealing, 2; beg, 1; begging, 2; beseeching, 1; comfort, 5; comforted, 11; comforts, 2; conciliate, 1; encourage, 6; encouraged, 4; encouraging, 3; entreat, 1; exhort, 8; exhortation, 1; exhortations, 1; exhorted, 2; exhorting, 3; exhorts, 1; given, 1; implore, 4; implored, 9; imploring, 5; invited, 2; making an appeal, 1; plead, 1; pleaded, 1; pleading, 1; preach, 1; requested, 1; urge, 17; urged, 5; urging, 1;

Such things are scripturally not permissable for a woman to do OVER men. Most of the above, (encourage, etc.) I can do to "A MAN" under the authority of my husband, but not to MEN as though I am their authority.

Proclaim is "Kerusso"
Definition:
1. to be a herald, to officiate as a herald
to proclaim after the manner of a herald
always with the suggestion of formality, gravity and an authority which must be listened to and obeyed

2. to publish, proclaim openly: something which has been done

3. used of the public proclamation of the gospel and matters pertaining to it, made by John the Baptist, by Jesus, by the apostles and other Christian teachers"

Translated Words
KJV (61) - preach, 51; preached + (2258), 2; preacher, 1; proclaim, 2; publish, 5;
NAS (61) - made proclamation, 1; preach, 16; preached, 10; preacher, 1; preaches, 2; preaching, 11; proclaim, 8; proclaimed, 6; proclaiming, 6;

A man can preach and proclaim to men and women. Proclaim using all definitions.
However a woman is limited scripturally, by the authority of God, to the second definition of proclaim when it comes to "men".

Lorna wrote: "I do respect you,your beliefs and your interpretation of the Bible, (And it is a question of interpretation - sola scriptura - is based on what we believe the Word to mean, our understanding of how it is to be applied in our lives)
and I pray that God will use you mightily in spreading His word and setting people free with the saving knowledge of His love."

By the grace of God, the Scripture are sufficient to "interperet" it's own words. To quote those men who have graciously gone before shedding God's light on His Own Word with humble hearts, "Let Scripture interperet Scripture"

There is but one truth on any issue even though this world and our flesh would like to make ways and avenues to what they think is the same destination. The hard part is putting self and everything that has formed our thinking apart from Christ aside and letting the Word do it's thing.

Praise God that He is faithful to do His work and change our hearts based on His Truth rather than lending us to our own interpretations.

My apologies Lisa. I do indeed have a faulty memory when it comes to what I wrote in which comment.

The word study was interesting.

There have been comments posted on this thred that I have prayerfully chosen not to post. Please consider rewriting your comment to reflect the intention not to be cut-throat here, but to speak the truth in love.

I have posted comments in the past on others blogs that I regret because they were not prayerfully thought out.

This is a tough topic... and truly we all have much to learn.

But it is a topic that must not be ignored or glossed over. But it should all be done to honor the Lord. Those involved must be respected.

Even if what is written here makes you angry, do not post in reaction to that anger.
Man's anger is not like God's. Man's anger is passionate and uncontrolled. God's anger is perfect and orderly and just.

God is slow to anger, great in power and He is good and perfect and just.
THis means God's anger is good and perfect and just.

When my child disobeys me and I "react" to my child out of anger, what am I teaching my child?

Let us press on and continue to learn from one another, Lorna. May we treat each other through this difficult topic, as sisters in Christ.
Though we do not agree, let us not stop at just agreeing to disagree. Let us work this out for the purpose of bringing honor to the Lord.

His servant for His glory,
Lisa

I do not believe that Jesus lived, died, and continues to live so that we could "agree to disagree."

I apologize to you Lorna if any of my comments have seemd hatefull or othewise. I need to heed the word of Proverbs 29:11

"A fool vents all his feelings, But a wise man holds them back."

Mike

Dear Lorna,
You wrote on your web site in the "About Lorna" section... "God has a plan for each of our lives. I have a passion for Jesus, but for me finding out who I am in Christ, is the most important thing right now."

That is what the Lord has impressed on my heart as He brings you to my mind. Bottomline, that is what we are "conversing" about here. Such questions should be at the forefront of all of our minds.

What is God's plan for our lives?

Who are we in Christ?

One comment for now, Lisa, and I'll phrase it in the form of a question: How does a woman preacher go about becoming the husband of one wife?

(1 Tim 3:2, Titus 1:6)

(Things that make you say, "Hmmmmm......)

Mike (and others) no offence taken by me because I believe none was intended.

You are being faithful to your understanding of scripture and obedient to God and I admire that.

Little-gal your comment made me laugh (though I agree the question of being a pastor/preacher is no laughing matter. so please don't misunderstand me in this)

You've all heard the arguments in favour of women in ministry many times I'm sure -and rejected them - so I won't waste time debating this with you. As Lisa said it's not our job to change minds but present the truth (as we understand it)

Titus 1:3 says (NIV which is the usual version used by Europeans) "An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe ..."

elders were taken from among the older men in the congregation- Paul assumes that they are already married. This verse does not bar unmarried (or widowed) men from being elders. The most likely explanation then is that a faithful monogamous married life is to be followed.

That doesn't explain the use of the word man ofcourse (and I don't suggest that it does) but it is possible to argue that this was written in a patriarchial system, and that's why the thought of women as elders is not entertained.

If we look at Tim 3:2 there are more qualifications - temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach ... not a lover of money etc and again the words "the husband of but one wife"

monogomy and faithfulness (ie no adultery, affairs, sexual sin) were extremely important that's why (I believe) it's repeated in both lists.

I do understand that for Lisa and many of you her readers - the idea of women in ministry is wrong - and I appreciate that you've nevertheless treated me with respect. As I said in my first response to Lisa, I will be held accountable to Jesus for what I've done on this earth - as will we all - and if I'm in error for my interpretaton of these scriptures (understanding them to be a picture of the times, rather than an absolute law - "thou art a woman- thou may not preach" etc) then I will have to rely on God's mercy (or suffer His punishment).

I have another question for you (from the Piper site that someone kindly suggested I look at) - there is says that it is clear that woman can prophesy in the church. I wonder if Lisa and others would give me a summary of their understanding of what he means by that, and how that applies to your life /the teachings of your church.

blessings and love

That is a question Littlegal, that caused me to ponder even more the concern for a woman in the pulpit. That is why I put up a new post...

Hey Lorna,
Good to see you back. I will address what you have said in a future post. For now, if anyone would like to address her question here, I think that will be wonderful.
My children are homeschooled and have had the dreaded 3 day state testing this week... please pray for them.

His servant for His glory.

I want to encourage the other 5 or 6 people that posted comments that were done in anger, to still prayerfully consider rewriting your posts. You had good things to contribute here... but consider the tone and your motive and the need here to honor Christ.

Some were offensive and rude towards me, some towards Lorna. THere is no need for that.

Remember: Though unified positionally in Christ, this does not mean we will be unified in regards to the authoritative rule of sound Doctrine... this is where "with all humility and gentleness, with patience, showing tolerance for one another in love" must come into action. Which sometimes must entail prayerfully discerned defensive exhortation.