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I especially enjoy writing about Biblical Womanhood as well as the application of Biblical theology from the perspective of a woman longing to communicate my love for who God is as revealed in His Word of knowable and applicable truth and NOT who I imagine He is from some sentimental, me-centered perspective that is based on relative, roller-coaster ride of self-sustained religion 'truth'. In other words, I like to encourage others to press on in His truth and His love for His glory.

But then, everything I have written has likely been said a whole lot better by someone else. I definitely have no insight that is deeper than what God has already revealed. Therefore, if you find anything of value here than give God the glory!

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"Lisa at Deo Volente is another blogger that I'd love to meet with and share some coffee. She's been through some rough circumstances in her life, and she's come through them clearly showing the grace of God, and honouring Him through those circumstances. Her various posts are sometimes funny, often really make you think, and always theologically sound."-Jen at JoythruChrist

Lisa is passionate about her reformed faith and her posts reflect how her faith is practically applied to situations in her life. Very difficult ones, from time to time...Ukrainiac

"Lisa's site has become one of my new favorites to read and to participate. I think she brings a nice touch to the application of theology to everday life as a woman and as a mother. It's sort of like Secret— strong enough for a man, but made for a woman." -Young Wilderness Voice

"Praise the Lord! I have finally found the sold-out, brainy Christian women bloggers, and from what I can tell so far, most of them are Reformed to boot! I knew they had to be out there somewhere. It was just a matter of time. I was directed to Lisa’s blog this morning ...which led to Carla’s blog ... and these are leading me to many others." -Katy at Logoscentric

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The above links have some excellent resources and information. However, I do not endorse everything on these sites and prayerfully request that if you click on these links, you will do so keeping this in mind.

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VII. A Biblical Vision of Manhood and Womanhood in the Church, Part 4

I have been e-mailed various times from those who hold the egalitarian position wanting me to engage them on this topic on their blog. I have visited these various blogs and have come to the conclusion that they are so off doctrinally in so many areas that I would find myself wasting too much of my time. Therefore, if you hold the egalitarian position, you are more than welcome to comment here and e-mail me with questions. However, I encourage you to do your homework. Alot of what is being brought up, I have already addressed. So look in my archives and know that I would rather spend my time not having to do your homework.
I have not heard from Lorna (the woman preacher that often commented here on this issue). I think perhaps I need to make a public apology to her for failing to keep her confidence of trust. I have brought up our conversation here on other blogs and that was wrong. I deeply regret it and pray she forgives me.
As for Kimiam, the young lady that has left seminary and is under great trial from her family of woman preachers, we are still conversing via e-mail. She longs for your prayers.
Please read on...

This is my 7th of a series of weekend postings from Evangelical Feminism and Biblical Truth by Wayne Grudem. (Go to my category list on the right sidebar and you will see a "Biblical Womanhood" category that you can click on to see the rest of these posts.)
Remember, I will list page numbers in parentheses from the book that these excerpts can be found on.

Again, I urge you to buy this MUST-HAVE book. What I write here is done in hopes that you will eagerly add this book to your library and buy it for anyone struggling in this essential area.
(drop me an e-mail if you need help getting one)

Section 2.4: The Example of the Apostles (page 81)

Mr. Grudem starts this section with, "If Jesus had wanted to establish a truly egalitarian church, he could easily have chosen 6 men and 6 women to be apostles and there would be no room for argument." He then writes about the cultural argument, which I consider the prevailing crutch for heresy run amuck. Remember, Jesus NEVER hesitated to do culturally unpopular things so this is a RIDICULOUS argument.

Grudem writes, "In fact, (the 12 Apostles) authority will continue into the age to come, because Jesus tells these 12, "Truly I say to you, in the new world, when the Son of Man will sit on His glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on 12 thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel." (Mt. 19:28) The highest positions of human authority on the age to come are not given to 6 men and 6 women equally, but to 12 men, the 12 apostles."

One of those egalitarian bloggers that I spoke of above wrote on their blog, "Who cares about whether a pastor is a man or a women. We need all the people we can get to go out and spread the Gospel."

To that I say... spreading the Gospel is not the issue. That can be done by both men and women. As long as the woman is not teaching or preaching over men. I have written on this several times. Look in the archives.

Also, in Revelation 21:14, Mr Grudem points out that we will see the 12 men's names written on the foundation of this city. When one digs into the Word of Truth, why this is even an argument, I do not understand. It is like trying to justify cursing and using debasing illustrations in the pupit by leaning on that cultural crutch made of toothpicks.

I especially like Grudem's conclusion:

Therefore, for all eternity, we will see that Jesus has called to Himself a great family of God's people in which the highest leadership positions are not distributed equally to men and women, but are all held by men. From the beginning to end, the Bible is simply not an egalitarian book.

Posted by Lisa on June 17, 2006

Comments

Yeah. I DEFINITELY hear you on this issue. I'm a Bible college grad and the school I went to wasn't as conservative as it marketed itself as being. I often run into girls that I was friends with in school and I find out that they're either pastors or soon to be leaving the ministry...

And those conversations are so uncomfortable! I often am frustrated at their 'following the leading of ths spirit' in opposition to the scriptures that the same spirit delivered, and when it comes to a textual question (debating/talking about the main complementarian texts), I have not yet ONCE had the conversation end in us "agreeing to disagree".

Every single time my female pastor friends and I talk, they admit that they haven't really sorted through the major texts but instead play either the "I'm not a theologian" card or the "Well, there are debates on EVERY passage of scripture, who are YOU to say that you know?" card. That is one thing that frustrates me tremendously; seeing that even though the bilical case is quite solid, there are so many pastoring women that simply don't really trudge through the text before they leap into ministry.

But, I'm guessing that you've already realized this, Lisa. The hermeneutical foundations of complimentarians and egalitarians are different foundations. Working from different foundations, it's no wonder that we end up in different understandings of the texts in question.

I find that Egalitarians often trump one text with another (like quoting Galatians 3:28 as an interpretive key to EVERY complimentarian text) or selectively using non-canonical literature to interpret biblical texts (the twisting of 'kephale' to apparently mean "source" is a perfect example of this)...among other things that I would consider "exegetical fallacies".

I'm at work today though and have to all of a sudden jet. Just sharing some thoughts. HA! Oops! Customer!

Posted by: The_armchair_theologian | June 17, 2006 01:59 PM

Which book would you recommend getting first? This one you are reviewing now, or the one Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood? (I'm not sure if I got the title of the book right, but I'm sure you know which one I'm talking about).

Posted by: Lynn | June 17, 2006 03:40 PM

Lynn,I recommend that you begin with Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood.
Equal, Yet Different by Alexander Strauch is another one. Not as exhaustive, but excellent. Especially for a group book study.

Armchair wrote: "Working from different foundations, it's no wonder that we end up in different understandings of the texts in question."
Exactly. Egalitarianism being a shaky foundation.

Posted by: 4ever4given | June 17, 2006 05:14 PM

I also want to say that I am not God. Yep. I know. That is a given. *shew* Glad I cleared that up for you.
So... there are things in my archives that I may have not defended well Biblically. Read through them. If you question something that has not been defended well, do not hestitate to ask me to. I just read something I wrote awhile back that I would totally rewrite now that I have done more searching into the Word of God. We all have much to learn. (from the "lightweight" to the most learned theologian!!)
But I will not delete those things I have written in the past. Why? Because it is good to go back and see if there is progression.

Posted by: 4ever4given | June 17, 2006 05:40 PM

Thank you Lisa. I've been wanting to buy Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood for a long time. I know it's online for free, but I have trouble reading for long periods of time on the Internet. I've never been a feminist, and my desire is to teach other women what biblical womanhood is. Of course, I'm just now learning myself. Thank you for the other book recommendation as well.

Posted by: Lynn | June 17, 2006 06:22 PM

Ministry Opportunities

"I will feed My flock and I will lead them to rest," declares the Lord GOD. "I will seek the lost, bring back the scattered, bind up the broken and strengthen the sick..." Ezekiel 34:15-16

Psalm 127

"My Husband, My Hero of Faith"

Just a pilgrim on a journey...

"I will lift mine eyes unto the hills; from whence cometh my help? My help cometh from the Lord who made heaven and earth..." Psalm 121

Below is a video testimony about how God saved our marriage after an 18 month separation, 5 years into our marriage. We had 2 children when we separated. We now have 6 children and have been married for... well, OH so much longer!!!... by the grace of our faithful Heavenly Father.