Thursday Thoughts: Dr. Ronnie Floyd

In reference to The Church at Pinnacle Hills, Lisa wrote: "I pray the people of that mega mall... I mean church, are putting their hope in Jesus, because if they are putting their hope in Dr. Floyd...". I went to the web site of The Church at Pinnacle Hills and found this: "Ronnie Floyd Winners is the ministry that takes the gospel to the world via...". Did you catch that? They have a ministry called Ronnie Floyd Winners! If they are the winners of Ronnie Floyd are there any winners of Jesus Christ in that hmmm... collection of people?

Mega Mall Church - hmmmmm. Yes, there was no mention of Jesus there. All this emphasis on making our temporal lives better when they should be warning everyone about the wrath to come. Sad, very sad. God help us.

In Christ

Mike Ratliff

Yes Bruce... I saw that too. It reminded me of THIS (which is actually a joke... or maybe not???).

Mike,
Yes... gut-wrenching, missin' the boat, heart-breaking sad.

Such is the spiritual declension of our churches that we were warned about in Scripture...

So, I'm confused here. It sounds pretty nifty. Are you going Lisa? That sounds like a place where you could add some serious content to your ministry resume!

With your strong bible/theology knowledge, your struggles with such a large family, and your "street cred" that your health struggles give you, I bet you could probably get on as a pastor! Man! That would be awesome! Think about how much more MINISTRY you could do, if you just grabbed any ministry opportunity at all?

I'll be praying for you and watching for you on TBN!

You've left me speechless Armchair... but I'm chuckling. You crazy hoot!

Yeah...I've been really REALLY busy with seminary. BUT, I didn't forget you! I know you missed having the resident "village idiot" around! HA!

I would never consider you an idiot. You just have a sense of humour that makes me laugh. :-D
... and sometimes makes me go "huh?"

Sincerely praying for you,
Lisa

HA HA HA! OH MAN! Lisa, if only you knew. People here don't know how to take me. I'll be in class and ask an intelligent question that nobody understands and then make some funny comment that nobody thinks they're allowed to laugh at either. I guess I have a different view of things than most, and I honestly laugh at how serious most of these guys take themselves. I won't bash TMS though...it's good.

Going to church without worshiping Jesus-is like an empty soul who is always thirsty. The people who attend these types of churches have grasp and build so big because they want to be "noticed". How little have they placed God in their hearts?

I do not want to get into unrighteous judgement here. There could be many attending that church that worship our Lord more rightly than I. Every church, no matter how sound, probably has attendees that do things, at times, to get noticed instead of for His glory. Perhaps more often than we want to admit... I myself included. What I am bashing is not the hearts of the people, but the way their church is being promoted. Only our Lord has the power to judge the hearts of men.
Sincerely,
Lisa

Yeah...I'm not sure that mega church people do so out of wicked motives. I mean, every megachurch starts small and usually grows out of some sort of evangelistic drive, usually driven by the gospel (for as good as they know it). At Saddleback, there are some amazingly rock solid people who have great theology. On the opposite side of the coin, at Grace Community Church, there are some people who are absolutely off their nut and NEED to get kicked out (and in time will, unless they stay under the radar).

I am convinced that many mega churches are not ALL bad, though there are several that are basically a 100% gong show. The thing that I'm learning at Grace Community is that what can start as an honest, biblical desire for evangelism and discipleship can REALLY become a horribly uncontrollable beast. Success can be a horrid curse! Once a church gets into the 5000+ range, it seems like it simply starts to grow BECAUSE it's big. People come to see what's going on, and when churches get to the 20,000+ range, unless you have an AMAZING leadership that has maintained control of things (and established sufficient lay leaderhsip), you can have a church that essentially becomes:

1. A democracy (money talks, and when your operational buget exceeds $50 million, you have MASSIVE temptations to listen)
2. A continuous exercise in theological damage control (Half the pastors at GCC end up are really busy straightening out heretics all week long in "coffeshop discipleship". They're just trying to keep things going steady, let alone get bigger and better!)
3. A run away train (nobody's in REAL control anymore, nobody REALLY knows what's going on in the 100+ ministries of the church, and nobody knows how to stop bad stuff when it finally surfaces). I mean, if Joel Osteen realized he was a flaming heretic and wanted to somehow straighten out Lakewood, he's simply get fired and they'd bring in a new celebrity pastor because they've got "too good a thing going on to let it stop". Even though he's the master and commander, that church would not notice if he left; there would be 32 people waiting to fill his shoes.

I know the mega churches have problems, and I also know that a majority of them are running in theological aberation, if not outright heresy, but I'm also learning how unfathomably difficult it is to maintain the reigns of a megachurch and how it's so easy to get watered down if you take "baby steps". I'm growing firmer with my understanding of the truth, but less quick to point fingers and shoot off my mouth.

And Julie, IF you claim to be able to judge men's hearts then you're making a claim that is reserved for Christ in 1 Corinthians 4:5. I don't know about Lisa, but I don't take deity claims lightly (though I think we're on the same page with that one!)!

Hey Armchair and Julie,
I go to church with Julie and she is a very sweet lady. She is also hearing impaired and we love to sign songs and "talk." She has a deep love for the Lord and is a dear friend.

I think we can all tend to jump into lumping everyone into a big pile instead of realizing that even in churches that are mega, or churches that are not of our particular denomination have people that are genuine in their worship and walk. The Lord doesn't look down and see His children in denominations or church sizes. He knows His children and only He can see into the hearts of everyone... no matter how stellar a Christian may come across, God knows their heart, their ways. He knows who is a fake and who is truly His. He knows who is giving Him glory and seeking His will, and who isn't. We can only go by fruit. That is where the book of James comes in. We are called to righteously judge by fruit... we will be known by others by our fruit. (You know where I am going with this.) But our fruit does NOT prove nor disprove genuine salvation. Though if we are truly His, we WILL bear fruit worthy of repentance out of a heart of love for our Lord who first loved us and gave Himself up for us... not because it adds anything to my salvation (works righteousness).

My hope is that I am careful not to try to judge unrighteously. That is SO easy to do. How can I be careful? As I have said before, it does require taking the log out of one's own eye first which requires me to cry out genuinely "Search me, O Lord, and know my heart..."

Sincerely,
Lisa